Big 12 Expansion

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tulaneoutlaw
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

I could see a world in which ESPN agrees to give the American more like $5m/year as a package to entice some of the better MWC squads. Suppose you could cut New Mexico, Hawaii, and either San Jose St, Utah St. or UNLV from the MWC. That leaves us 9 western teams. On our end we add App or UAB. Now we are at 9 teams. You have an 18 team league, 9 in the east, 9 in the west. Your conference schedule each year is the other eight teams from your division. Best team in the east plays the best team in the west for the conference championship. Alternatively you could do pods with 16 or 18 teams and rotate through everyone more frequently. I don't know if that format is worth more for ESPN or not, but it would be fun.

We are all just making this up to kill time anyway. The thought of a 18 or even 20 team national conference might be pretty cool.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Baywave1 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:15 pm If UTSA brings USAA with it like Fed Ex supports Memphis or Fertitta/Landry’s supports UH, it could matter. For TV, AAC needs winners but every roster often includes someone with a very rich Uncle even if that “player” rides the pine.

I would agree about Rice. Its endowment doesn’t matter. Its Leadership doesn’t care.
Man, I don't know if going past the Rockies is an option. You're talking about 4 time zones. Boise is a stretch, but because of their recent sustained success, worth the add. Past them, I do not see the league going coast-to-coast. FAU is a good suggestion, so is Marshall (as much as I hate them). BSU, Colorado St, Wyoming, AFA all are good alternatives for a Western Division, but I believe SMU will balk b/c of travel. For some reason, I think UTSA and UAB are like directional teams and under the thumb of larger institutions in their respective states who will limit their success. Personally, I don't think the numbers matter as long as there are at least 12. Look for WVU to try the ACC again, which will open another slot in the B12.

Let's beat Ole Miss and maybe options will open up for good ole TU (and I don't mean Tulsa).
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

Post by wavedom »

Poseidon wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:55 pm
GSx wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:30 am
wavedom wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:07 am Going for markets over winners is a bad choice. None of those teams will own that market. What got the conference noticed was having ranked teams. That also draws eyeballs to our games that get on TV. I like Aresco but I hope he doesn't screw this up.
We weren't a winner; Memphis wasn't much of a winner in football. AAC picked us. Now both are.
ECU was a winner, and now they aren't.
The problem with picking winners is that most aren't consistent and most are "winning" against lesser competition (had we stayed in C-USA, we'd have 7/8 winning seasons, if not 8/8).
To me, the list of trustworthy non-AAC G-5 Winners is:
Boise
SD State
Appalachian
then
Marshall
Fresno
And that pretty much does it.
I totally agree with GSX about the you can't pick just a winner. TCU made the jump into the Big XII beacuse they were in texas and the dallas metroplex as much as beacuse they were winners. Remember at that time Boise was a bigger winner. If it was about being awinner then USM would have been mopre of a serious target. Markets do matter and the conference has shyed away from the school not in big cities, ECU being the exception.

Petes's also right. ESPN has to give their blessing or seggestion.

FAU has shown some commitment to football. They missed on the pelini borthe, but they didn't cheap out on Kiffen and Taggert may be decent there. They would be replacing a florida team lost. There is a lot of upside with them and they aren't terrible. I think they are a stronger team candidate than morst people think.

Along kinda the same line its hard to imagine the conference not looking to add a texas team as well. I wouldn't rule Rice out, but UTSA makes the most sense. North Texas would likely be blocked by SMU.

That leaves two more slots to fill. Here's where maybe you get a bit creative.

Air Force would add a brand, thought niche one, with out compromising credibility and can be in the same divison as Navy.

UAB appears to be serious about football and is in a decent market. I still have pause because they may be under the thumb of Alabama.

Marshall is serious, has some cache, but lacks the market. Still better brand than most of what is out there. Gives Temple a more regional oppenent.

Send out a flyer to SDSU, Boise, CSU, AFA(above), Fresno if they want to jump. If 3-4 want to jump then consider going to 14.

---In total if ESPN is on board I say go to 14. The AAC might lose 2 more to the big 12 on top of the 3 lost already after UT/OU leave. Large numbers should melp cushion that loss.
Sunbelt went the winners route and are rising as a conference. It was a smart play. Market doesn’t matter if the school is not committed or the market is owned by another school.
There was an extra 9 in that percentage
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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GSx wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:43 pm App, Boise, SD State. Top 3.
Then you get to Ohio U. Solid outfit under Solich....kind of consistent..... but they lost to FCS Saturday. But not to just any FCS - an FCS that was so depleted that in the game the week before, they cut the 2nd half down to 2 12 minute quarters, at their request. They also never won the MAC under Solich.
The next school is Toledo - I would put them in the top group (as far as winning).

Also for consideration are budgets, access to resources, facilities, etc.
These should be the main considerations, I think.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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PeteRasche wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:43 pm "Hey Vandy, how about you join a league where you can be middle of the pack instead of the doormat and we'll reward you with $3M per year instead of $50M... whatcha think?"

I really want to start hearing rumblings that the P5 are having it "suggested" by the TV networks that they cut the fat at the next contract re-up. The only way we get any of those schools is if there's a serious threat that they're getting kicked to the curb in '24 or' 25. No school is gonna willingly take a $20-to-$45M pay cut just to "be more competitive in their league".
You keep talking about this but the devil is in the details...do the bylaws of these conferences even allow them to toss out a charter member? Doubtful. Even more doubtful is that there'd be enough votes to kick out a school...who wants to set a precedent that could come back to bite them?
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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ml wave wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:02 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:43 pm "Hey Vandy, how about you join a league where you can be middle of the pack instead of the doormat and we'll reward you with $3M per year instead of $50M... whatcha think?"

I really want to start hearing rumblings that the P5 are having it "suggested" by the TV networks that they cut the fat at the next contract re-up. The only way we get any of those schools is if there's a serious threat that they're getting kicked to the curb in '24 or' 25. No school is gonna willingly take a $20-to-$45M pay cut just to "be more competitive in their league".
You keep talking about this but the devil is in the details...do the bylaws of these conferences even allow them to toss out a charter member? Doubtful. Even more doubtful is that there'd be enough votes to kick out a school...who wants to set a precedent that could come back to bite them?
I have no idea. The chances of it happening are probably as likely as us inviting them and them joining the AAC willingly. But then again, Temple got kicked out of the Big East, so there must be some sort of minimum bar of some sort, you'd think. I look at it this way - if there's a way to do it and it means more money for the big conferences and biggest schools, they will find a way. Follow. The. Money.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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PeteRasche wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:06 pm
ml wave wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:02 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:43 pm "Hey Vandy, how about you join a league where you can be middle of the pack instead of the doormat and we'll reward you with $3M per year instead of $50M... whatcha think?"

I really want to start hearing rumblings that the P5 are having it "suggested" by the TV networks that they cut the fat at the next contract re-up. The only way we get any of those schools is if there's a serious threat that they're getting kicked to the curb in '24 or' 25. No school is gonna willingly take a $20-to-$45M pay cut just to "be more competitive in their league".
You keep talking about this but the devil is in the details...do the bylaws of these conferences even allow them to toss out a charter member? Doubtful. Even more doubtful is that there'd be enough votes to kick out a school...who wants to set a precedent that could come back to bite them?
I have no idea. The chances of it happening are probably as likely as us inviting them and them joining the AAC willingly. But then again, Temple got kicked out of the Big East, so there must be some sort of minimum bar of some sort, you'd think. I look at it this way - if there's a way to do it and it means more money for the big conferences and biggest schools, they will find a way. Follow. The. Money.
Temple was not a charter member of the Big East. If you follow the money, why would Ole Miss, MSU, South Carolina, etc. vote to kick out Vandy (for instance)? If you remove the bottom rung of the ladder, all you're really doing is moving yourself one step closer to the bottom. They're much better off getting $50MM with zero risk vs getting what, $55MM and setting a precedent of being able to be kicked out? Never going to happen.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Let’s ask South Carolina, Utah, Northwestern, Maryland, Rutgers, Missouri, Ole Miss (after Saturday night), Wazzu, Oregon State, and Miss State. No reason to wait.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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windywave wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:51 pm
tjtlja wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:01 pm I like Charlotte, but I am biased. Hell, let’s go after Vandy, Wake Forest, Illinois, and Florida State for starters.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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ml wave wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:37 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:06 pm
ml wave wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:02 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:43 pm "Hey Vandy, how about you join a league where you can be middle of the pack instead of the doormat and we'll reward you with $3M per year instead of $50M... whatcha think?"

I really want to start hearing rumblings that the P5 are having it "suggested" by the TV networks that they cut the fat at the next contract re-up. The only way we get any of those schools is if there's a serious threat that they're getting kicked to the curb in '24 or' 25. No school is gonna willingly take a $20-to-$45M pay cut just to "be more competitive in their league".
You keep talking about this but the devil is in the details...do the bylaws of these conferences even allow them to toss out a charter member? Doubtful. Even more doubtful is that there'd be enough votes to kick out a school...who wants to set a precedent that could come back to bite them?
I have no idea. The chances of it happening are probably as likely as us inviting them and them joining the AAC willingly. But then again, Temple got kicked out of the Big East, so there must be some sort of minimum bar of some sort, you'd think. I look at it this way - if there's a way to do it and it means more money for the big conferences and biggest schools, they will find a way. Follow. The. Money.
Temple was not a charter member of the Big East. If you follow the money, why would Ole Miss, MSU, South Carolina, etc. vote to kick out Vandy (for instance)? If you remove the bottom rung of the ladder, all you're really doing is moving yourself one step closer to the bottom. They're much better off getting $50MM with zero risk vs getting what, $55MM and setting a precedent of being able to be kicked out? Never going to happen.
I don't think it would be teams getting officially kicked out as much as the top tier teams leaving. If Clemson, fsu and Miami want to leave the acc to join the sec, what recourse would the acc teams have to keep them?
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

Post by zmanno »

"Reduction in exit fee? Maybe that happens when you get the boot like Idaho from Sunbelt but I’m not aware of any actual examples of this" I seem to recall a reduction in fees in the big east fiasco in return for scheduling considerations, perhaps i am wrong.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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tjtlja wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:41 pm Let’s ask South Carolina, Utah, Northwestern, Maryland, Rutgers, Missouri, Ole Miss (after Saturday night), Wazzu, Oregon State, and Miss State. No reason to wait.
Can you explain your line of thinking here? Like, what would be their reasons to leave their power conferences? Curious what you are thinking. Leave 50 million to get 3 to 5 million. You must have an explanation for why you are suggesting it.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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I guess I could have asked Britney Spears to my prom...
STOP BUNTING gaddammit!!
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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zmanno wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:18 pm "Reduction in exit fee? Maybe that happens when you get the boot like Idaho from Sunbelt but I’m not aware of any actual examples of this" I seem to recall a reduction in fees in the big east fiasco in return for scheduling considerations, perhaps i am wrong.
Yes I remember that too. But argument would be the departing teams simply paid in kind instead of cash.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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tjtlja wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:41 pm Let’s ask South Carolina, Utah, Northwestern, Maryland, Rutgers, Missouri, Ole Miss (after Saturday night), Wazzu, Oregon State, and Miss State. No reason to wait.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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PeteRasche wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:03 pm
tjtlja wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:41 pm Let’s ask South Carolina, Utah, Northwestern, Maryland, Rutgers, Missouri, Ole Miss (after Saturday night), Wazzu, Oregon State, and Miss State. No reason to wait.
Can you explain your line of thinking here? Like, what would be their reasons to leave their power conferences? Curious what you are thinking. Leave 50 million to get 3 to 5 million. You must have an explanation for why you are suggesting it.
Pete, of course, I am not serious about this. Just pointing out how ridiculous those teams are in those so called P5 leagues. None of these teams are watched by anybody except their fans. Just trying to interject some fun, that’s all. This will come about one day when the so called big players leave their own conferences to join the pro/college football league.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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windywave wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:26 pm
tjtlja wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:41 pm Let’s ask South Carolina, Utah, Northwestern, Maryland, Rutgers, Missouri, Ole Miss (after Saturday night), Wazzu, Oregon State, and Miss State. No reason to wait.
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Somewhat shocked you are letting someone else do your talking. You are way to smart for that. You are blessed with the gift of intelligence.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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gerryb323 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:09 pm I guess I could have asked Britney Spears to my prom...
Anyone could. She has made some terrible choices when it comes to men, so who knows.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Long article in the athletic about G5 realignment. Some good and some bad as far as AACs current position. Surprised no mention of Coastal. Surprised at the seriousness of James Madison. Hard, hard pass on ULL. Every G5 conference covered.

https://theathletic.com/2826426/2021/09 ... group-of-5
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Looking for winners:

"A commitment to football could help offset budget concerns. If a school has a budget in the 20- or 30-million range but has new facilities and pays its coach well while winning on the field, that could convince presidents. Stability of investment is important. Academics are a major key, too. Sources noted the group of AAC presidents has had a bit of turnover as well. Four schools have changed presidents this year, and Memphis will have a change next year. They will need to get on the same page.

Should the AAC focus on market size and urban schools? That would fit much of the current makeup of the league. But market size doesn’t mean what it did a decade ago. Now, TV partners want streaming viewership, and that means having a passionate fan base willing to pay to watch.

Former WAC and Sun Belt commissioner Karl Benson saw this up close. He was commissioner of the WAC when it grew to 16 teams before quickly splitting apart in the late 1990s. In the early 2010s, when C-USA took Sun Belt teams in major markets, Benson turned to Appalachian State and Georgia Southern, which had football history and engaged fan bases. It was the right move, as the SBC is as strong as ever while C-USA flails across three time zones".
Last edited by wavedom on Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
There was an extra 9 in that percentage
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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tulaneoutlaw wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:53 am Long article in the athletic about G5 realignment. Some good and some bad as far as AACs current position. Surprised no mention of Coastal. Surprised at the seriousness of James Madison. Hard, hard pass on ULL. Every G5 conference covered.

https://theathletic.com/2826426/2021/09 ... group-of-5
Coastal is fun but it’s had one good year. We should focus on Boise State, San Diego State, ULL, and James Madison. JMU’s athletic budget is probably larger than ours….we get a rivalry game with ULL and bring in a west coast audience. James Madison brings a lot of hype and national recognition. Also, we should be close to favorites to win every year. There’s no reason why we can’t be the next UCF of the G5. Basketball needs to get better but I think that will happen with Ron Hunter.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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If we are looking for media markets and fan base. Buffalo (media) and Liberty (large student body from around the country) should seriously be considered. We need four schools and six would be better so that we can have 7 schools in each division. Boise State, Army, Air Force, Utah State, large west coast MW schools (if the travel expenses are not outrageous). You can have a west and east division with 7 or eight teams in each. Tulsa and SMU in the west and the rest in the east along with some new teams.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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PJR wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:59 am If we are looking for media markets and fan base. Buffalo (media) and Liberty (large student body from around the country) should seriously be considered. We need four schools and six would be better so that we can have 7 schools in each division. Boise State, Army, Air Force, Utah State, large west coast MW schools (if the travel expenses are not outrageous). You can have a west and east division with 7 or eight teams in each. Tulsa and SMU in the west and the rest in the east along with some new teams.
Liberty should be a hard no. We have nothing in common with them and they bring a ton of drama and extremist-religious views which don’t add value. Utah State sucks but the others are interesting.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

Post by gerryb323 »

purplehaz3 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:11 am
PJR wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:59 am If we are looking for media markets and fan base. Buffalo (media) and Liberty (large student body from around the country) should seriously be considered. We need four schools and six would be better so that we can have 7 schools in each division. Boise State, Army, Air Force, Utah State, large west coast MW schools (if the travel expenses are not outrageous). You can have a west and east division with 7 or eight teams in each. Tulsa and SMU in the west and the rest in the east along with some new teams.
Liberty should be a hard no. We have nothing in common with them and they bring a ton of drama and extremist-religious views which don’t add value. Utah State sucks but the others are interesting.
Agree, no Liberty. I'd probably try Colorado State over Utah State. A Buffalo/Army and CSU/Air Force combination for travel could be something. Or just a whole merger with the Mountain West. I'm also not interested in ULL.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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U.S. News and World Report annual college rankings are out and Tulane ranks No. 42 among national universities. That would make Tulane the highest-ranked Big 12 school if they get an invite (behind only Texas at No. 38, but they're leaving).
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