Big 12 Expansion

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CT Wave
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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waverider wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:19 am When I saw that they would negotiate the buyout fee, I took it as the conference was willing to negotiate and not hold them to the full amount. I hope I misinterpreted that and the negotiation is in regards to paying more to leave early.
Pretty sure you did misinterpret. The idea is they can pay more and leave sooner. That can be negotiated.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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PeteRasche wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:14 pm Or are you just making up stories to fit your narrative?
I suggest that you look in the mirror, BIG TIME, before you start this doody again. Disconnected analogies, drawing untoward conclusions and then casting them on others, etc. for the sole purpose of accusing someone of an agenda....seriously, look in the mirror.

I think the conference will be fine, as long as we don't lose anyone else. I suggest adding ONE of the CUSAs, unless we can get a MWC block, which I doubt at this point.
If we couple a good team in the next few years WITH facility improvements and $, then we'll have a chance. Making some basketball progress is important as well.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Definitely will be a premium to leave early
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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tulaneoutlaw wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:34 am
tjtlja wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:46 am The things I am most concerned about is recruiting and WF’s thoughts on all of this. Can we maintain the level of recruiting we have accomplished the past several years? Does WF want to stay in a watered down league? It s critical we get better each year. That combination is WF and continued success on the recruiting trail. With these defections in the league, is the combination of WF and good recruiting sustainable?

The other thing I cannot believe is we have seen no comments from Fitts, Dannen, or Fritz. I feel like we have thrown in the towel. The pool of viable teams left in the G5 is shrinking significantly. I want to know where we stand. I want to know if our university is being aggressive in trying to get in the Big 12. It just feels like we have given up. Let the fans know where we stand and what we doing moving forward. Watching football tonight and the discussion about the optimism for the teams invited to the Big 12 is hard to swallow. Where are we headed? Can someone at Tulane address this question?

Just heard Memphis and Boise may get an invitation to the Big 12. Our league is being decapitated. This sucks. 60 friggen years and we couldn’t ever get it right. No D1 facilities, no fan base, and no conference. We were blessed to get in the AAC, but it will take a miracle to make the next jump. All we can do is hope this team can really be a significant factor the next two years. After that, it will be CUSA part 2.
Hey tj, I'm going to try to answer some of your previous post and this one here. There are only a lot of opinions and speculation right now, but this is a very unstable time for the AAC. There are a few teams we could add that if they joined would consolidate our on field position as the 6th best league. I've mentioned elsewhere that these are App, Boise, and SDSU based on SP+, a system I really like. We could also add some combo of three more teams like Fresno, Air Force, and UAB to further deplete the MWC and Belt, the two closest leagues to us right now. The league has been damaged badly by this and I don't think it is fixable in the current landscape, but we can get some sandbags around the perimeter.

One off showings like Oklahoma aren't particularly important. Winning matters some but only as much as it increases eyeballs on the team. Between now and the next realignment, we need to add as many folks watching our games as possible. Winning 10+ games and conference championships won't hurt. Neither will upsetting Ole Miss and other autonomy teams in the future. I personally hope we thrash ucf, Houston, and cinci every time we play them the next couple of years.

WF is still paid very well and isn't going to leave unless a bigger job comes calling. After three .500 type seasons it should be clear he will have to truly lead us to a breakthrough to get that kind of offer. Maintaining recruiting is harder though because we can't say we are playing solid teams like Cinci and Houston any more.

I don't think there is any truth to the rumor of Memphis and BSU getting invites right now. These things are typically handled behind the scenes in very quiet ways so that they are totally done before they leak out. The Memphis president complaining to the press about being left out is a strong indicator they aren't being added at this time. I wouldn't expect the B12 to add any more until ou and UT leave and even they may not if there are no good candidates. We will have to do all we can to show them that's us by winning, continuing to invest in the program, drawing more fans and eyeballs etc. The whole thing really, really sucks but I wouldn't go off the deep end. Whatever discussions are being had about Tulanes future will be done quietly, so all we can do is support the team and hope we make the right moves going forward.
Outlaw, thank you for answering all my post. I really appreciate it and I respect your opinion. I am just pissed at how we have come to this point. Our name should have on those TV’s yesterday. I won’t go down without a fight. I am just worried that Tulane will. If I were them, I would be doing some venting on national TV. Show some balls and say Tulane is not backing down and will do everything within their power to be a player. Saying nothing sends the wrong message to me, the fans, the school, and to recruits. Say something! Say something no one else is saying. Say their are 20+ schools don’t belong in the P5 currently. Bring up anti-trust. Just have some nads.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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GSx wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:42 am
PeteRasche wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:14 pm Or are you just making up stories to fit your narrative?
I suggest that you look in the mirror, BIG TIME, before you start this doody again. Disconnected analogies, drawing untoward conclusions and then casting them on others, etc. for the sole purpose of accusing someone of an agenda....seriously, look in the mirror.
I never said anything about an agenda. I was simply pointing out that you are accusing the AAC and Tulane of sitting back and not trying to advance, of sitting on our hands and not investigating if there are options to make our product more desirable - and unless you have secret insider info that none of us have which literally contradicts everything in the media in the past few years, then you are just making stuff up in order to have something to complain about.

Aresco is a business man, possibly one of the most skilled of the conference commissioners. Many articles have been written about all the work he did when UConn left, trying to better our position. Bob Bowlsby (comically) issued a Cease and Desist letter to ESPN because Aresco was working so hard to get Big 12 teams! He was not sitting back doing nothing. Yeah we don't know what Dannen has been doing but that does not mean nothing - we didn't know about almost every single major news thing in the past decade with Tulane athletics until it happened. And in general this situation isn't for individual schools to decide anyway, it's conference-level stuff.

No agendas. Just stop assuming we're in this position simply because we're lazy and haven't tried.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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I am fairly confident the current admin and ad are positioning themselves about as best as we possibly can for a future big 12 invite. We were considered in 2015 when the program had done basically nothing on the field in this century.

TD has a good relationship with Bowlsby, he has a good relationship with Iowa State admis(see our upcoming series with them). K-State admins(ssme as above). We genaerally have an ally in UCF who is going there. W may have a tougher road with Baylor who have become premadonnas which is odd considering they were basically the texas version of tulane on the field before art briles got there.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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I believe the 12 are looking to expand to 16. NOLA, AAU status and on field performance may put us high on the list.
The sooner we get an invite the better.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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If Big 12 adds 4 more, I think we have a good chance but have to keep improving. Seems like they would want NOLA for conference champ location plus road games to Tulane. Plus, our national brand as a school is probably the strongest in the AAC. We are a national school. I would tHink the final 4 would be us, Memphis, Boise and I’m not sure who the 4th would be. You would think SMU but they already have Texas and TCU/Baylor may not want that. Does anyone know if we were considered this time around?
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Brett McMurphy said the top 8 considered were the 4 invited plus Memphis, boise, smu and USF. There is a lot of smoke that Memphis and Boise are going in as soon as OU and Texas leave. And that USF has a lot of support with their market, new facilities (they just broke ground on a new football facility and at the ground breaking their board chair said it’s time to built an ocs) and as a travel partner with UCF.

We need to be all in starting now to get the attention of the Big 12. There will be more expansion in the coming 12-24 months it sounds like. What facilities can we start fundraising for/announce? What additional university and donor support can be given? What programs can we upgrade coaching wise? I’m sure there’s more but this should be the 100% focus of the department and university moving forward.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Donny Z wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:30 pm Brett McMurphy said the top 8 considered were the 4 invited plus Memphis, boise, smu and USF. There is a lot of smoke that Memphis and Boise are going in as soon as OU and Texas leave. And that USF has a lot of support with their market, new facilities (they just broke ground on a new football facility and at the ground breaking their board chair said it’s time to built an ocs) and as a travel partner with UCF.

We need to be all in starting now to get the attention of the Big 12. There will be more expansion in the coming 12-24 months it sounds like. What facilities can we start fundraising for/announce? What additional university and donor support can be given? What programs can we upgrade coaching wise? I’m sure there’s more but this should be the 100% focus of the department and university moving forward.
From what I understand, a football operations center was going to happen and donations were being solicited until the school intervened. Until the school gets on board with athletics, we can’t really expect to move up the pecking order.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Disrespectful or overexcitement? (Haven’t confirmed that this pic is 100% real)

https://twitter.com/greggdoyelstar/stat ... 22561?s=21

Image
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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It wouldn't surprise me if they did it but that sure does look photoshopped, rider. Could just be poor pic quality though.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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PeteRasche wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:30 pm It wouldn't surprise me if they did it but that sure does look photoshopped, rider. Could just be poor pic quality though.
I thought it looked fake too, but the only comments from Cincinnati fans are those defending the empty stadium because it was taken well before kickoff.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Sorry I don’t believe the photo is real. If and when confirmed, I will join the chorus.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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waverider wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:54 pm... the only comments from Cincinnati fans are those defending the empty stadium because it was taken well before kickoff.
I watched a good portion of their game and the stadium was not empty at all.

After the Ohio State loss today someone joked maybe they'd fire Day after this year and steal Fickell. Obviously not going to happen but wouldn't that be rich if they didn't even get to head into the Big 12 with Fickell coaching them? :lol:
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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I'm just going to drop this.
Last edited by GSx on Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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I don’t know if this helps the debate, but when Dannen came to the Greenbacker meeting, he was there until after 9pm and said he still had calls that night with 2 different conferences. Whatever happens it isn’t because Dannen is sitting back waiting for it to happen.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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Mike Norvell current FSU coach (ex Memphis coach) just lost to Jacksonville State at home. Someone tell the 4 departing teams the grass isn’t always greener in the power 5. The difference between the mid range power teams the rest is minimal these days. Tulane has better athletes than many of the power 5 teams. It’s literally all a marketing gimic.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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waverider wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:05 pm I don’t know if this helps the debate, but when Dannen came to the Greenbacker meeting, he was there until after 9pm and said he still had calls that night with 2 different conferences. Whatever happens it isn’t because Dannen is sitting back waiting for it to happen.
Money talks. Not enough emphasis on athletics at Tulane. It is what it is and we should be aiming to win the conference this year to change that. Basketball needs a big year too. This is the most important 5 year period in the school’s athletic history.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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But on a different matter, when a report a month ago suggested that the AAC was "plotting with ESPN'" to pursue Big 12 teams, why was that such an outrage that warranted the AAC having to get defensive and deny, while it's perfectly acceptable for the Big 12 to pursue AAC teams.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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GSx wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:53 pm
PeteRasche wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:52 am I never said anything about an agenda.
Right - what you said was " making up stories to fit your narrative"
Exactly. "Agenda" and "narrative" mean different things. You were painting a narrative for this particular discussion. I never said you had an agenda. But I'd love to hear what agenda I have, please tell me. The only agenda I have in this particular thread is to disagree with people saying the AAC didn't even try to get better.
GSx wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:53 pmI said they weren't proactive - there are many reasons why someone may not be proactive: don't see the need, have other priorities (such as Dannen working on NCAA rules),
So I'm unclear whether you are accusing Tulane (Dannen) or the AAC (Aresco) of not being proactive. It seems like you are lumping them together or flipping back and forth between them.
As for Tulane, I don't think there is much an individual school can do in today's TV-contact-driven world... I mean, do you envision a potentially-successful scenario where Troy Dannen could just keep calling the SEC or ACC or Big 12 commissioners, leaving them voice mails, offering to take them to dinner, sending them brochures touting the benefits of Tulane... what are you thinking here? Like, what would "Tulane being proactive in the background" look like? Seriously, I'm not arguing here, I'd like to hear some examples of what you would have liked to have been going on, because I'm honestly sorta at a loss for coming up with what you are envisioning for Tulane to be proactive.
Because, in my mind, there's not a single "shmoozing" thing we can do to advance, we simply need to:
1. Spend money on facilities.
2. Win big and consistently in football.
If those are the things you are disappointed that we have not been doing, then we're actually in agreement.

As for the AAC and Aresco, I thought I made this pretty clear but you seem to have missed it so I'll put it here:
GSx wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:53 pmThe only reason they looked for a replacement for U Conn is that they needed to add a team to have a championship game, unless they could get a NCAA waiver; but the preference was to get a waiver over adding teams (the "stories" make that pretty clear).
(...)
The search for U Conn's replacement, such as it was, has nothing to do with adding a block of teams to strengthen the league against future erosion (which is what I suggested they could have been more proactive about).
This is where I would like you to show some proof, and asked whether you have some insider info that you are not sharing, that we've just been doing nothing. It was all over the news after UConn left that we looked at all the options and decided to stand pat. Do you not think, since the new AAC TV contract was being worked out, that those discussions involved Aresco talking to ESPN people (and possibly other networks) and saying "who out there could we add that would increase our strength" and them saying "no one"? Do you not think in 2015/2016 when the Big 12 was looking to expand and talking about taking 2 to 4 AAC teams, that Aresco started right at that minute looking into this? I would bet that Aresco has been pretty proactively looking at any possible ways to strengthen the AAC for at least 5 years, and has had all sorts of financial studies done, to see what the overall ramifications would be of adding various schools, including the travel costs, time zone effects to TV coverage, etc., etc. Do I have proof? No... but it seems to follow that it would be the case since any time there has been a shake-up (UConn leaving, the current 3 leaving), multiple stories have hit all the major media outlets talking about the work Aresco has been doing to strengthen the AAC. As I mentioned in my last post, that Cease & Desist from Bowlsby is a literal proof that Aresco isn't twiddling his thumbs hoping this will work out.

Look at it terms of TV money per team. When UConn was leaving, we had (per the ESPN contract) an "$8M/team" strength. Aresco looked around and no teams worked out to be "$8M/team" teams. So we stayed as-is. Now we've lost our three (arguably) strongest brands, we are no longer a "$8M/team" league. There are teams out there who are lesser numbers.... maybe "$6M/team" or "$4M/team" type teams. But the remaining AAC members are now going to be probably lower than that (maybe $3M or even $2M?). So those teams that were not worth adding before are now worth adding - possibly even worth quite a bit more than the remaining teams' value. So, picking a number and a team, say Boise is a "$4M" team. If our new AAC is a "$3M/team", then now it's certainly worth doing.

I just think you were being very disingenuous to argue that we should have proactively been adding the Boises, AFA, Colorado State, Army, SDSU, whomever you think would have added value, by assuming adding any of those teams would have strengthened our league in its previous iteration. It was made pretty clear at several different junctures that none of them were a financial addition. So what would "being proactive" have been?
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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PeteRasche wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:03 am I just think you were being very disingenuous to argue that we should have proactively been adding the Boises, AFA, Colorado State, Army, SDSU, whomever you think would have added value, by assuming adding any of those teams would have strengthened our league in its previous iteration. It was made pretty clear at several different junctures that none of them were a financial addition. So what would "being proactive" have been?
There is no evidence, none, zero, that suggests that the league made a serious look to add the group as a block for any reason, but less the reason I suggested.
Again all of your stories and examples of post-U Conn are simply not relevant because at best they were looking for A replacement - and they really weren't looking that hard because they didn't want to fill the spot as long as the NCAA would waive the rule. Maybe my idea is a bad idea -but I'm hardly "making stuff up" that they didn't try it.

How about you knock off accusing posters of lying, agendas ("narratives"), etc. when they have opinions you don't like.
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

Post by Baywave1 »

No one wants to be in a conference with BYU or BSU unless they have to. B12 had to have BYU so it happened. Full membership too!

AAC now has to have BSU. Don’t know if that will happen. We will see
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

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GSx wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:45 am
PeteRasche wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:03 am I just think you were being very disingenuous to argue that we should have proactively been adding the Boises, AFA, Colorado State, Army, SDSU, whomever you think would have added value, by assuming adding any of those teams would have strengthened our league in its previous iteration. It was made pretty clear at several different junctures that none of them were a financial addition. So what would "being proactive" have been?
There is no evidence, none, zero, that suggests that the league made a serious look to add the group as a block for any reason, but less the reason I suggested.
Again all of your stories and examples of post-U Conn are simply not relevant because at best they were looking for A replacement - and they really weren't looking that hard because they didn't want to fill the spot as long as the NCAA would waive the rule. Maybe my idea is a bad idea -but I'm hardly "making stuff up" that they didn't try it.

How about you knock off accusing posters of lying, agendas ("narratives"), etc. when they have opinions you don't like.
So you don't think Mike Aresco has made any significant effort to find out whether there are any teams, or combinations of teams, which would add value to the AAC?
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Re: Big 12 Expansion

Post by zmanno »

I am baffled by conferences that allow reduction in departure fees for those schools jumping ship. Is there some fear that the fees are not enforcible legally? Why would the aggrieved parties accept a penny less ? Why not enforce the dollar amount and time frames specified in the AAC bylaws. This is a critical period of time for the AAC and Tulane and I sure hope Aresco can pull a rabbit out of his hat.
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