Willie Fritz shuns Kansas, keeps building at Tulane

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Willie Fritz shuns Kansas, keeps building at Tulane

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Last edited by OGSB on Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by PeteRasche »

Not much depth, or anything that's not utterly obvious, here. If you saw the headline and were hoping Daniels came up with some reason that we (or Fritz himself) hadn't yet considered that was a game changer in the negotiations, he didn't.

Unfortunately, despite the logic in the story, history is littered with dozens, if not hundreds, of examples of coaches who could have had the same article written about them before they chased the money or the "close to home" aspect and jumped anyway. And the large majority of them likely failed.

I have to wonder if the time this is taking (and the relative silence) is good, bad, or neither. In a normal case I would say the longer this drags on, the more chance he leaves (because otherwise we would have heard an "I'm not leaving" by now). And agents love to spread rumors to get their clients money but it's been crickets. But I suspect Kansas having no AD and then just hiring one and having him get settled while getting involved in the search probably throws any "normal" timeline considerations out the window.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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PeteRasche wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:05 am history is littered with dozens, if not hundreds, of examples of coaches who could have had the same article written about them before they chased the money or the "close to home" aspect and jumped anyway.
There hae not been hundreds, or even dozens, with an offer as bad as Kansas
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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FWIW, not a massive indicator or anything, but worth noting, he's been active on twitter the last week, mostly re-tweets, but still. Last time he was interviewing, his twitter went dead until it was all over.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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WaveProf wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:52 am
PeteRasche wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:05 am history is littered with dozens, if not hundreds, of examples of coaches who could have had the same article written about them before they chased the money or the "close to home" aspect and jumped anyway.
There hae not been hundreds, or even dozens, with an offer as bad as Kansas
I agree. Usually the person leaving is going to a better opportunity and not just chasing a retirement fund (not that I think Fritz is looking to do that).

On the positive side, Ed wrote an article (or at least a headline) that most Tulane fans would agree with :-D
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by long green »

literally HUNDREDS.

No such article was written by an independent journalist when David Pierce left for Texas. No such article was written by an independent journalist when Tommy Bowden left for Clemson. At the time of the latter departure Ed Daniels said on TV that it was unfortunate for Tulane but one of the facts of life.

This is getting rather drawn out. One of the reasons for that is that there is no reason, such as being in the most important time of recruiting, for Fritz or some other sitting head coach to take his name out of the running. But it's very likely that Tulane has known if Fritz is leaving for some time. The KU search was ongoing before the new AD took the job.

Because of that likelihood, I think it likely also that Daniels knows the punchline and did when he wrote this.

This should all be folded into the big Fritz/Dannen thread which has probably stayed closer to the topic than most of our long threads (should probably buy it a gold watch).
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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It's been locked.
There was an extra 9 in that percentage
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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So it has. Thanks Obama. :wink:
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by Sophandros »

This should be the new thread, as we now know Dannen isn't going to Kansas.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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I still say again that the wise move for everyone involved is for KU to stick with the interim guy until December. We are taling about this as if it is a a normal coaching change situtation. Its far from it. They have a staff in place that their players are commited to.
If they wait until december...
- they will have much better pool head coaches draw from AND asistants to fill the new staff.
- they don't as many of the players jumping in the transfer portal.
- the new AD can make a more informed hire. The coaching search talk was mainly from the now fired AD who had the imperative to move on quickly because the longer it sat open the longer it looked like terrible hire. The new AD shoyld be able to buy some time (and possibly save some money).
- they will have a better shot at Fritz IMO. Their program seems very unstable at the moment. The new AD would have 7 months to show that they have their crap back together. Fritz woyld have time to get his ducks in order as well. Hell this coyld very well be like the Hall situation(who I suspect USM was vetting back when we beat them in the bowl in 2019.)

Making a hire ag this point in the calender just isnt done much. When coaches have been fired April-August most of the time thego through the seaon with an interim. We are currently in the 21 football season and have been since about national signing day or spring practice.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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Poseidon wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:19 pm I still say again that the wise move for everyone involved is for KU to stick with the interim guy until December. We are taling about this as if it is a a normal coaching change situtation. Its far from it. They have a staff in place that their players are commited to.
If they wait until december...
- they will have much better pool head coaches draw from AND asistants to fill the new staff.
- they don't as many of the players jumping in the transfer portal.
- the new AD can make a more informed hire. The coaching search talk was mainly from the now fired AD who had the imperative to move on quickly because the longer it sat open the longer it looked like terrible hire. The new AD shoyld be able to buy some time (and possibly save some money).
- they will have a better shot at Fritz IMO. Their program seems very unstable at the moment. The new AD would have 7 months to show that they have their crap back together. Fritz woyld have time to get his ducks in order as well. Hell this coyld very well be like the Hall situation(who I suspect USM was vetting back when we beat them in the bowl in 2019.)

Making a hire ag this point in the calender just isnt done much. When coaches have been fired April-August most of the time thego through the seaon with an interim. We are currently in the 21 football season and have been since about national signing day or spring practice.
I would maybe say they'd have a better shot at Fritz in December if they weren't talking to him now. But the fact they are (apparently) talking to him now would make that almost impossible if they don't hire him (especially if he says no rather then them deciding to go with an interim - they wouldn't try again). And of course there's always the chance that this coming season Tulane goes like 5-7 or 4-8 against this brutal schedule and Kansas might not want him after that (whereas conversely many here would be begging them to take him).
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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Making a hire ag this point in the calender just isnt done much. When coaches have been fired April-August most of the time thego through the seaon with an interim.
Coaches generally don’t get fired around this time, so going against what is normally done in a sample size of like 2 isn’t that crazy. Other than John L Smith at Arkansas and Luke Fickell at Ohio State, what are the other recent examples of schools going into a full season knowing that they were going with an interim head football coach?
While there are drawbacks like you listed, there are also points in favor of hiring now. Like not competing with other, better job openings.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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If WF is talking to Kansas, then perhaps he should go. Worst job in college football right now. He has built something here that over the next 5 years could right the ship for years to come. We can surely pay him what Kansas will be offering. I hope WF puts an end to this ridiculousness in the next couple of days. Kids are committing all over the country, and we currently sit at zero. I hope he has the sense not to drag this out for Tulane’s sake.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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PeteRasche wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:44 pm
Poseidon wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:19 pm I still say again that the wise move for everyone involved is for KU to stick with the interim guy until December. We are taling about this as if it is a a normal coaching change situtation. Its far from it. They have a staff in place that their players are commited to.
If they wait until december...
- they will have much better pool head coaches draw from AND asistants to fill the new staff.
- they don't as many of the players jumping in the transfer portal.
- the new AD can make a more informed hire. The coaching search talk was mainly from the now fired AD who had the imperative to move on quickly because the longer it sat open the longer it looked like terrible hire. The new AD shoyld be able to buy some time (and possibly save some money).
- they will have a better shot at Fritz IMO. Their program seems very unstable at the moment. The new AD would have 7 months to show that they have their crap back together. Fritz woyld have time to get his ducks in order as well. Hell this coyld very well be like the Hall situation(who I suspect USM was vetting back when we beat them in the bowl in 2019.)

Making a hire ag this point in the calender just isnt done much. When coaches have been fired April-August most of the time thego through the seaon with an interim. We are currently in the 21 football season and have been since about national signing day or spring practice.
I would maybe say they'd have a better shot at Fritz in December if they weren't talking to him now. But the fact they are (apparently) talking to him now would make that almost impossible if they don't hire him (especially if he says no rather then them deciding to go with an interim - they wouldn't try again). And of course there's always the chance that this coming season Tulane goes like 5-7 or 4-8 against this brutal schedule and Kansas might not want him after that (whereas conversely many here would be begging them to take him).
It's not brutal schedule.
There was an extra 9 in that percentage
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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visualmagic wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:50 pm
Making a hire ag this point in the calender just isnt done much. When coaches have been fired April-August most of the time thego through the seaon with an interim.
Coaches generally don’t get fired around this time, so going against what is normally done in a sample size of like 2 isn’t that crazy. Other than John L Smith at Arkansas and Luke Fickell at Ohio State, what are the other recent examples of schools going into a full season knowing that they were going with an interim head football coach?
While there are drawbacks like you listed, there are also points in favor of hiring now. Like not competing with other, better job openings.
I can think of two even more recent examples that did not go with the interim. Dantonio left MSU spring of 2020 and they hired Mel Tucker. Colorado could've gone with some kind of interim, but chose to hire Karl Dorrell instead. He wasn't a sitting head coach so the carousel stopped there (not counting assistants).

Going with the interim might be the prudent thing in this case. But when is the last time you saw Kansas athletics and prudent in the same sentence?
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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Would we expect an interim if Fritz left to take the KU job?
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by washwave »

If you go with an interim coach right now, you are flushing another recruiting year. Getting a new staff in place allows you to start recruiting and hope to get a real class next December. I would think that the only time that you would go with an interim is if the firing took place within a few weeks of the season. We're still nearly five months from the start of next season and so I would think that anyone with an opening would try to hire a permanent coach and staff.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by RI WAVE »

KU AD has indicated they will be performing a nationwide search. Fritz continues to be one of top 3 targets, based upon recent news articles. Anything happening in NO that would provide us with a clue as to what may be in the works? Just curious if there are any clues coming out of the TU athletic complex? Pretty hard to read the tea leaves up here in RI.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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Kansas should have a coach in place by October
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

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RI WAVE wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:53 am KU AD has indicated they will be performing a nationwide search. Fritz continues to be one of top 3 targets, based upon recent news articles. Anything happening in NO that would provide us with a clue as to what may be in the works? Just curious if there are any clues coming out of the TU athletic complex? Pretty hard to read the tea leaves up here in RI.
Clearly the interim guy is a fourth top candidate. I also saw a report from a Kansas site that mentioned a Nebraska assistant, not a coordinator bur he did have college HC experience at lower levels.

One thing to remember about Fritz, Leipold, and Monken: they have bosses. If KU is about to hire any of those guys it is in the interest of the boss of that coach to get past this as soon as he can. He/they would push the coach and KU to get a move on and KU is hardly an 800 lb. gorilla. I think if Fritz or Leipold really wanted that job it would have happened by now. Monken's candidacy might be different because of possible resistance to him running a triple option though I've read he may be amenable to a different approach.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

long green wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:19 am
RI WAVE wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:53 am KU AD has indicated they will be performing a nationwide search. Fritz continues to be one of top 3 targets, based upon recent news articles. Anything happening in NO that would provide us with a clue as to what may be in the works? Just curious if there are any clues coming out of the TU athletic complex? Pretty hard to read the tea leaves up here in RI.
Clearly the interim guy is a fourth top candidate. I also saw a report from a Kansas site that mentioned a Nebraska assistant, not a coordinator bur he did have college HC experience at lower levels.

One thing to remember about Fritz, Leipold, and Monken: they have bosses. If KU is about to hire any of those guys it is in the interest of the boss of that coach to get past this as soon as he can. He/they would push the coach and KU to get a move on and KU is hardly an 800 lb. gorilla. I think if Fritz or Leipold really wanted that job it would have happened by now. Monken's candidacy might be different because of possible resistance to him running a triple option though I've read he may be amenable to a different approach.
Folks in the know have said that behind closed doors Monken and Niumatalolo have indicated they wouldn't be married to the triple at a non-service academy. That hasn't been said more publicly because both coaches feel that lobbying for different coaching gigs given the mission of their current institutions is uncouth. Certainly Monken knows the triple well, but he's also just a good coach who knows football. Kansas would be very luck to get Monken whether he brings the triple or some sort of hybrid.

A better question would be why Kansas thinks they are above the triple at all. It gave GT a very solid floor and a couple of BCS/NY6 level seasons, way more than anything Kansas has done lately.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by Poseidon »

tulaneoutlaw wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:36 am
long green wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:19 am
RI WAVE wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:53 am KU AD has indicated they will be performing a nationwide search. Fritz continues to be one of top 3 targets, based upon recent news articles. Anything happening in NO that would provide us with a clue as to what may be in the works? Just curious if there are any clues coming out of the TU athletic complex? Pretty hard to read the tea leaves up here in RI.
Clearly the interim guy is a fourth top candidate. I also saw a report from a Kansas site that mentioned a Nebraska assistant, not a coordinator bur he did have college HC experience at lower levels.

One thing to remember about Fritz, Leipold, and Monken: they have bosses. If KU is about to hire any of those guys it is in the interest of the boss of that coach to get past this as soon as he can. He/they would push the coach and KU to get a move on and KU is hardly an 800 lb. gorilla. I think if Fritz or Leipold really wanted that job it would have happened by now. Monken's candidacy might be different because of possible resistance to him running a triple option though I've read he may be amenable to a different approach.
Folks in the know have said that behind closed doors Monken and Niumatalolo have indicated they wouldn't be married to the triple at a non-service academy. That hasn't been said more publicly because both coaches feel that lobbying for different coaching gigs given the mission of their current institutions is uncouth. Certainly Monken knows the triple well, but he's also just a good coach who knows football. Kansas would be very luck to get Monken whether he brings the triple or some sort of hybrid.

A better question would be why Kansas thinks they are above the triple at all. It gave GT a very solid floor and a couple of BCS/NY6 level seasons, way more than anything Kansas has done lately.
RE: LG, I tend to agree with the observation that is CWF or Leipold were likely they would have pulled the trigger. If they are "your guy" you usually get them pretty quickly. The longer it draws out the more likely their interim or someone not named will get it.

RE: Outlaw, You're right. Kansas is a couple steps below where Navy and USAFA have been and Army is now. When is the last time Kansas was ranked or lost by only touchdown in Norman. I imagine some of their fans are still high off of the Mangino years and want a quick turnaround. However, as we have witnessed first hand, three or more failing coaches in row will dig you a deep hole.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

Quick turnarounds are what got Kansas to this point. Turner Gill didn't work so bring in Weis who went all in on JUCOs. When that quick turnaround failed, they brought in Beaty who in retrospect maybe had them on the right track to at least have a D1 roster. But then they ran him off to bring in publicity stunt Les Miles and now here we are.

To answer your question, Poseidon - Kansas last beat OU in 1997 and that's the last time they've been within a score against the Sooners. They've been more competitive against Texas, but besides an upset win in 2016, the Jayhawks are 0-fer against the Longhorns since joining the Big 12. Kansas was last ranked by the AP in 2009. Outside of Mangino, it's been a wasteland. You'd think the change to go 8-4 on a regular basis via the triple would be exciting.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by ml wave »

long green wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:19 am
RI WAVE wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:53 am KU AD has indicated they will be performing a nationwide search. Fritz continues to be one of top 3 targets, based upon recent news articles. Anything happening in NO that would provide us with a clue as to what may be in the works? Just curious if there are any clues coming out of the TU athletic complex? Pretty hard to read the tea leaves up here in RI.
Clearly the interim guy is a fourth top candidate. I also saw a report from a Kansas site that mentioned a Nebraska assistant, not a coordinator bur he did have college HC experience at lower levels.

One thing to remember about Fritz, Leipold, and Monken: they have bosses. If KU is about to hire any of those guys it is in the interest of the boss of that coach to get past this as soon as he can. He/they would push the coach and KU to get a move on and KU is hardly an 800 lb. gorilla. I think if Fritz or Leipold really wanted that job it would have happened by now. Monken's candidacy might be different because of possible resistance to him running a triple option though I've read he may be amenable to a different approach.
They just hired an AD what, last week? KU has no responsibility to adhere to some other school's timeframe.
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Re: Daniels: Willie Fritz should shun Kansas, keep building at Tulane

Post by long green »

Of course they don't. But a program that thinks it's going to be a poachee is going to have its own timetable and could force things into the open. Kansas ain't Oklahoma, they don't make the weather. Heck, they're not even Texas Tech.
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