Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompassing

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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

Post by Baywave1 »

For all my superpositive buds out there including Mr. or Mrs. anonymous poster, IT'S THE BRAND. Yes the money is nice but what Tulane justifiably fears the most is being in a permanent G5 ghetto which impacts admissions, donations, you name it. What finally woke up Cowen was when he was losing all these accepted students to, yes, LSU and all these SEC and other P5 schools "way below" Tulane in the rankings solely because of perceived inferior status as a "G5" school. This has been particularly negative on male enrollments. Yes there are other reasons but does anyone think it's just a statistical coincidence that Tulane undergrad is now generally 60% female and it's more than not having an engineering college. Yes some HS seniors want the P5 college experience. Period.

In short all a P6 conference would be is something that gets automatic/preferential bowl consideration not equal pay. But the perception would be is that you are "equal" to the other P5 and that's what counts here. Again IT'S THE BRAND.

So you plan for it. Yeah it might not come to fruition for a decade. I know some folks here don't feel good about Tulane unless they feel bad about Tulane but c'mon. Asking your conference to be prepared for the next change so that its teams are in the best position is supposed to be delusional? All I will say is I'm glad the folks who think that way are not running my business......
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

Post by PeteRasche »

I don't feel bad for Tulane, I feel sickened by the power TV has over college football. As I said before, yesterday was the best possible outcome for Tulane.

I still think Tulane is going to become a strong program and eventually get invited to a P? Conference along with some other school. We bought time. But I don't pretend to think that TV will ever have the interest, much less the money, again to create another power conference. TV money is going away as people cut cords, ESPN is laying people off left and right... I think our future is getting our house straight and catching on with an existing conference.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

Post by sr »

Say Bay, hasn't Tulane's enrollment been women majority for quite a few years - even in my day (BC) men were in the minority. Miami, which has a fair men's sports program, has a woman majority.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

Post by windywave »

The Who? wrote:This thread is one of the more delusional threads I've ever seen. You do realize that the Big 12 schools all make a lot more money simply by being in the Big 12 than they would in the AAC, right? If, for example, WVU really just wanted to rekindle its "rivalry" with UConn and Cincinnati, then it wouldn't have left the Big East in the first place. As it was, WVU not only left... it paid significant dollars to leave . . . and it did so with an agreement that it would start by only take HALF of its share of the Big 12 money - which was still more than it was getting from the Big East.

Every team that's available to the Big 12 now will likely be available in the next five years, 10 years, 15 years, etc. The only reason for the Big 12 to expand now was to force ESPN and Fox to pay it the same pro-rata share that the other teams are already getting . . . but with the current members taking part of that money and only allowing the new entrant to take a percentage of it.

Conferences won't stay the same. Flip through any history book of college football and show me a time where conferences were stable. They've never been, and they never will be.
I am not a green glasses wearing guy. . . .Texas is screwing everyone else in the conference. OU and KU could EASILY be picked off by the Big 10. That leaves 8. Texas would turn there nose up at the AAC and ACC. PAC 10 is big enough and TAMU and probably a few others would keep them out of the SEC. AAC could pick up a combination of WVU, ISU, KSU, OSU, Baylor and TCU. TTU would be in the MWC and UT because they are greedy frick would be an independent. (Although the Big 10 would probably be interested on their own terms). All you need is one or two team to bolt and the conference implodes. No one wants be the last one standing. Of the 6 I propose the AAC could choose from we would only take 4. They know OU is ready to bolt and they may move first in order to be assured a conference spot.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

Post by WaveProf »

Wherever Oklahoma bolts, they'll take OK State with them. Even the SEC. Not because the conference would want OSU, but because they'd be willing to take the 2 for 1 to get Oklahoma.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

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I want to circle back around to adding the MWC's Col. St., USAFA, Boise State teams plus BYU and attempting to become the default 6th P5 conference because I believe it is the most doable option at the moment and long term. I will attempt to outline the steps needed to achieve this.

1. Become the G5 rep in the New Years Six bowls 90% of the time. This is huge. establishing a stranglehold on that will make more money for the conference on a yearly basis and distance ourselves from the G5. The AAC needs to be the small house is a rich neighborhood, no the big house is a poor one. If we get Boise, CSU, and USAFA it will gut the MWC enough to knock them closer to the CUSA, SB, MAC level. This is a cutthroat move, but one that should be attempted if the AAC wants to be a big boy on the block. It is also something the MWC did to the WAC, so no hard feelings. Now BYU has to know they probably aren't getting in a P5 conference, this was their shot. They can keep BYUTV and join the AAC. At the moment the MWC TV deals net their clubs between 1.5-2 million each, The AAC deal is between 2-3. The AAC pays more, though perhaps not significantly. But, if a long term plan is presented correctly I believe these teams could be lured away. Boise almost went to the Big East once already, CSU is very open to an eastward looking conference, and USAFA would join Navy.


2. Play tons of P5 teams. Play eight conference games and then three P5 opponents whenever and wherever possible. This will do two things. First the more games played against P5 teams the more wins. Strangely people don't notice the loses as much as they do the wins. Second, it will crowd the other G5 teams out of the P5 market. If the P5's always busy playing the AAC then they won't be busy playing the other G5 teams. The goal is to establish two FBS divisions by default they way the P5 has done. Except it won't be by title as they have done. It will be the de facto divisions.


3. Get AAC teamS in the playoff. Houston was under real consideration this year. If the AAC is in NY6 bowl every year it will do wonders for the optics of an AAC champion's credibility for spot in the playoff. When the AAC has a year or more significantly multiple years with a team in the playoff the G5/P5 distinction will be done for. The next TV contract after such a period will close the gap between the AAC and the P5 to such an extent that the distinction will not be a real one.


This should be the 10 year plan. The days of no long term goals because every team is just in the minors waiting to be called up should be gone now. The Big 12 has no incentive to change for at least 8 years, the other P5's appear to be pretty stable as well.
It is time for the AAC to step up and be bullish.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

Post by randymc »

also push for an eight team playoff to virtually guarantee an annual spot for our conference in the playoff picture.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

Post by GreenieBacker »

the only clear silver lining out of all of this Big 12 debacle is that the strongest Programs outside the P5 (Houston, BYU, navy, Air Force, etc) will soon realize that entry into any P5 conference is unlikely to happen anytime soon. Their better option is, as Poseidon has noted, to create an undeniable strongest conference outside the P5 and become the default sixth P5 conference. It can happen now if Aresco moves fast as everyone realizes the effect of the Big 12 non-expansion move.
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Do y'all remember when Britton Banowsky went on his little kick of "we're gonna grow into a power conference" and "we need to speak well of CUSA so people think we're better"? How he said the conference would grow and improve, we'd play power teams to increase our public perception, and we even looked at joining with the MWC to have a championship game? You realize you're just suggesting the same thing Banowsky did, right? And how'd that turn out? Oh, yeah... all the better teams left for another conference, which turned into our conference, and now we're back doing the same exact thing again. Fool me once....

Again, we need to right our own ship, and things will take care of themselves. There's nothing we can do about everyone else. We can lobby and promote and talk-up our conference all we want, look at expansion, dream of adding a couple of strong teams from other conferences, etc., but it makes no difference. Those who succeed will leave for greener pastures when offered. CUSA is an example of that.

We just need to become a good program and things will work out.

I also don't believe for a minute that expansion is done, because, as we saw Monday, it's being controlled completely by TV. Even if a P5 conference isn't planning expansion, if they get a call from ESPN (or whomever) saying "add that team to your league and we'll pay you $30M more per year - you can pay them $20M and split the remaining by your existing members", it's gonna happen. As we saw emphatically reinforced Monday, it's all driven by TV money. No G5 is going to turn down the money of a P5 offer, no matter how noble the cause of wanting to stay and increase the power of the AAC. Besides, there simply isn't the TV money out there any more for the AAC to ever get an offer that can compete with the existing P5 TV contracts.

Heck, when it comes time to renegotiate the AAC TV contract, it would be better if we had LESS teams, as long as there were a few good ones. That way the overall TV money would stay around the same or slightly higher, but get split less ways.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

Post by GreenieBacker »

making the AAC the clear top dog outside the P5 with a perennial invitee to one of the Big Bowl at year's end is the way to go, IMO. If that means adding BYU, Boise State and Air Force I'm all for it.
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Post by Poseidon »

PeteRasche wrote:Do y'all remember when Britton Banowsky went on his little kick of "we're gonna grow into a power conference" and "we need to speak well of CUSA so people think we're better"? How he said the conference would grow and improve, we'd play power teams to increase our public perception, and we even looked at joining with the MWC to have a championship game? You realize you're just suggesting the same thing Banowsky did, right? And how'd that turn out? Oh, yeah... all the better teams left for another conference, which turned into our conference, and now we're back doing the same exact thing again. Fool me once....
I totally get this, but the AAC is in a far better position than the CUSA. This AAC has teams multiple teams that have gone to the NY6/BCS bowls. How many did that old CUSA have? 0? The AAC has much, much better TV contract and is the premier G5 conference. The recent non-expansion does make things different. The next round of expansion being "just around the corner" is entirely in doubt. The Big 12 is now incentivized to not expand until 2026. The other conferences have even longer contracts. Expansion isn't dead, but it is clearly on hiatus.
PeteRasche wrote:Again, we need to right our own ship, and things will take care of themselves. There's nothing we can do about everyone else. We can lobby and promote and talk-up our conference all we want, look at expansion, dream of adding a couple of strong teams from other conferences, etc., but it makes no difference. Those who succeed will leave for greener pastures when offered. CUSA is an example of that.


Of coarse we take care of ourselves first and foremost. However, the current reality is UCF, Cincy, and Houston have all succeeded and they were just passed over by the most likely conference to expand. Cincy has no business not being in the Big 12 given WVU is. How has the "we will tend to ourselves" worked out for Cincy? They should be the no.1 school pushing for AAC growth.

Those that stand around get left behind. We know this all to well from the past decade plus of Tulane football.
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Post by GreenieBacker »

Memphis too. A still pretty decent Football Program, a not too distant marquee program in MBB...........and they didn't even survive the first cut. I really think this non-expansion by the Big 12 is the clearest sign that the musical chairs we've seen in the past is coming to an end for the foreseeable future. So what are the better non-P5 Programs supposed to do sit there hat in hand hoping that expansion will happen again? I really do think that this may be an epiphany for them.
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Poseidon wrote: I totally get this, but the AAC is in a far better position than the CUSA. This AAC has teams multiple teams that have gone to the NY6/BCS bowls. How many did that old CUSA have? 0? The AAC has much, much better TV contract and is the premier G5 conference. The recent non-expansion does make things different. The next round of expansion being "just around the corner" is entirely in doubt. The Big 12 is now incentivized to not expand until 2026. The other conferences have even longer contracts. Expansion isn't dead, but it is clearly on hiatus.
Outside of Houston last year, haven't all of the AAC teams that have been in those bowls you mention gotten there because they were in the Big East when it automatically recieved on of those bids?
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Matt, don't forget UCF going to the Fiesta Bowl from the AAC
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

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MattK wrote:
Poseidon wrote: I totally get this, but the AAC is in a far better position than the CUSA. This AAC has teams multiple teams that have gone to the NY6/BCS bowls. How many did that old CUSA have? 0? The AAC has much, much better TV contract and is the premier G5 conference. The recent non-expansion does make things different. The next round of expansion being "just around the corner" is entirely in doubt. The Big 12 is now incentivized to not expand until 2026. The other conferences have even longer contracts. Expansion isn't dead, but it is clearly on hiatus.
Outside of Houston last year, haven't all of the AAC teams that have been in those bowls you mention gotten there because they were in the Big East when it automatically recieved on of those bids?
Yes and no. The conference had changed to the AAC in 2013 and UCF was 12-1 with Louisville 11-1 behind them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Ameri ... all_season The fact that UCF won the conference when it still had Louisville only strengthens my argument IMO.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

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Poseidon wrote:
MattK wrote:
Poseidon wrote: I totally get this, but the AAC is in a far better position than the CUSA. This AAC has teams multiple teams that have gone to the NY6/BCS bowls. How many did that old CUSA have? 0? The AAC has much, much better TV contract and is the premier G5 conference. The recent non-expansion does make things different. The next round of expansion being "just around the corner" is entirely in doubt. The Big 12 is now incentivized to not expand until 2026. The other conferences have even longer contracts. Expansion isn't dead, but it is clearly on hiatus.
Outside of Houston last year, haven't all of the AAC teams that have been in those bowls you mention gotten there because they were in the Big East when it automatically recieved on of those bids?
Yes and no. The conference had changed to the AAC in 2013 and UCF was 12-1 with Louisville 11-1 behind them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Ameri ... all_season The fact that UCF and Cincy won the conference when it still had Louisville only strengthens my argument IMO.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

Post by waverider »

Houston releases its Big XII pitch. Includes a video, PowerPoint and a brochure.

http://www.uhcougars.com/genrel/UH_presentation.html

They are also reportedly working on Herman's contract now.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

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I don't think that the Big 12 will ever vote to let Houston in unless there is a lot of money flowing to the non-UT members. I can't see Baylor or TCU ever voting for Houston. I can't see Kansas or K St. doing it either. Kansas has 40 players on its roster from Texas. K St. has 20. Oklahoma and OSU recruit Texas very heavily. Texas Tech was boxed out of elevation to a Tier One Academic school because the politicians in Texas chose Houston (which made no sense geographically). I can't see any of these schools supporting Houston entering the Big 12. If Houston was a P5, that would make it more competitive for those players.
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Re: Conference re-alignment discussion & news- All-Encompass

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Houston will definitely get in if their attendance continues to spike. The school has gotten larger, the facilities are really good, and Houston just passed Chicago in population. Currently, Houston is at 6.something million and projections have it at 10 million by 2025. If they can bring the requisite eyeballs to the table, they are in. If the Big 12 gets dismantled, they should be a shoe in over Baylor, Tech, Iowa State, Kansas State, and probably Kansas. Hell, I would rather have Houston over Stillwater any day.

If Tulane can capitalize on this delay, we should be a shoe in over any of the schools listed above.
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tjtlja wrote:Houston will definitely get in if their attendance continues to spike. The school has gotten larger, the facilities are really good, and Houston just passed Chicago in population. Currently, Houston is at 6.something million and projections have it at 10 million by 2025. If they can bring the requisite eyeballs to the table, they are in. If the Big 12 gets dismantled, they should be a shoe in over Baylor, Tech, Iowa State, Kansas State, and probably Kansas. Hell, I would rather have Houston over Stillwater any day.

If Tulane can capitalize on this delay, we should be a shoe in over any of the schools listed above.
I see where you're going with this, but Houston's increasing population does nothing for the perception the current members of the B12 have of UH. Houston has not lost the SWC stigma of Cougar High.
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sr wrote:
tjtlja wrote:Houston will definitely get in if their attendance continues to spike. The school has gotten larger, the facilities are really good, and Houston just passed Chicago in population. Currently, Houston is at 6.something million and projections have it at 10 million by 2025. If they can bring the requisite eyeballs to the table, they are in. If the Big 12 gets dismantled, they should be a shoe in over Baylor, Tech, Iowa State, Kansas State, and probably Kansas. Hell, I would rather have Houston over Stillwater any day.

If Tulane can capitalize on this delay, we should be a shoe in over any of the schools listed above.
I see where you're going with this, but Houston's increasing population does nothing for the perception the current members of the B12 have of UH. Houston has not lost the SWC stigma of Cougar High.
Agree... tjtlja, I think your opinion is a little skewed by living there and hearing what the media there says. The Big 12 has all the eyeballs it needs in the state already, including plenty in Houston itself. Adding UH doesn't get them the eyeballs of the city, it just gets them the eyeballs of the UH fans. But more than that, it's about the number of schools who vehemently will oppose them being added.

BTW, this worked out for Texas exactly how they wanted (politically) - they lobbied for UH so they could get on the good side of those they need to build that facility in the city, but didn't have to take UH into their conference. I suspect some glasses were clinked on the Texas campus at about 6 pm Monday night.
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Post by Yankeewave »

i can't see UCF or Houston ever moving up
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Watching BYU at Boise St. - where ever Boise goes the Conference should make, as an condition of acceptance, a color change of their field. Blue just ain't gonna work. No if, and or buts...
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sr wrote:Watching BYU at Boise St. - where ever Boise goes the Conference should make, as an condition of acceptance, a color change of their field. Blue just ain't gonna work. No if, and or buts...
Funny you say that because I was thinking the same. It was a thing when Boise started making its mark. Now it reminds me of tired old HoJo restaurants from the 50s with their orange Naugahyde booths. It's run its course.
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TUPF wrote:
sr wrote:Watching BYU at Boise St. - where ever Boise goes the Conference should make, as an condition of acceptance, a color change of their field. Blue just ain't gonna work. No if, and or buts...
Funny you say that because I was thinking the same. It was a thing when Boise started making its mark. Now it reminds me of tired old HoJo restaurants from the 50s with their orange Naugahyde booths. It's run its course.
I don't think they'll ever change because it gives them a competitive advantage. Not many blue fields for teams to practice on to get used to the color difference.

(I say all this without knowing if the blue field really is a distraction and hard to adjust to)
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