Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

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visualmagic
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by visualmagic »

I can definitively say that I was significantly less interested in watching our games in that 2013-14 season. I watched/attended most football games because it was one of our better years lately but basketball, I probably missed more games than ever that year
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by GretnaGrn »

tjtlja wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:38 pm I don’t think this is an overall knee jerk reaction. Our football program and university is wasting money. We are in no position to to do anything other than go independent and maybe make some money. Run a poll to see how many will actually be interested in CUSA 2. Very few are interested in the AAC when we are losing. Instead of taking shots at each other, take shots at the people who are cumulatively responsible for where we are today. No shots should be aimed at any of us because we are the only ones left. I think there are only two paths - go independent, go home.
We were independent at a time when it was WAAAY easier to be an independent, and tens of people freezing in the dome saw the result. A return to those days is pointless. That route is a non-starter; no one was interested then, either, and that was at a time when it was a less impossible road.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by visualmagic »

Poseidon wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:44 pm
WaveProf wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:53 pm
GretnaGrn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:27 pm Obviously, this is all about as bad as can be, and some depression is understandable and entirely appropriate, but the attitude of "oh well, I quit" in here is disgusting. Tulane has, unfortunately, been dreadfully bad for a long, long time, other than brief flashes. We have been in worse conference situations than even this one--which, to be clear, is indeed horrible.

I enjoy Tulane sports, as I would think anyone posting here must, or must have in the past. I admit I'm a die-hard; I would watch regardless of conference. I would much, much rather that conference not be garbage, but I'm watching either way. I thought more of us were the same way. I thought that was one of the things that made us different from LoSer-U, where it's just fashion and not real passion, generally.
The feelings you describe are how I once felt watching people lose interest because of bad records. I'd had an entire life of following losing college teams, and it made me strong, I thought. Don't leave when it gets bad, I thought. And, as for W/L, I'm still in that mindset, though it'd be better for my health if I wasn't. But add in dropping to competition where it doesn't even really feel like it matters if we win? In a changing college football landscape where the divide is only going to keep gettin wider? That's a horse of a different color for me.

Maybe we have a backdoor deal to the B12. Or even the MWC. It's possible. But it's about the only lifeboat to semi-relevancy I can imagine at this point.
To whether this is terrible or not will play out in the details of the new contract. If the money stays about the same and the TV slots stay the same we evry well may come out better in the long run than if the former teams would have stayed. As a brand we move from bottom 5 program of an 11 team league to the top five of a 14 team league. We will get more ESPN and ABC tv slots and we are no longer the new guy. I am not asserting we dumb down the schedule, but the reality is the AAC over the last 4 years was much better than it got credit for. The SBC seems much stronger than it actually is. The bottome half is terrible and f our 6-6 teams from 20 and 19 were in that conference we would have been right there with ULL, Coastal, and App state at the top. The bottom line is this will be agood thing for Tulane if we coach well, recruit well, play well and win. We'll have just as much access to the expanded playoff as any other G5 with ESPN on our side.
If we coach well, recruit well and win, we’ll be making the best of it but no, ultimately this is not a good thing for Tulane. You can try to be as optimistic as you want but it’s just not a good thing
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

Poseidon wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:44 pm
WaveProf wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:53 pm
GretnaGrn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:27 pm Obviously, this is all about as bad as can be, and some depression is understandable and entirely appropriate, but the attitude of "oh well, I quit" in here is disgusting. Tulane has, unfortunately, been dreadfully bad for a long, long time, other than brief flashes. We have been in worse conference situations than even this one--which, to be clear, is indeed horrible.

I enjoy Tulane sports, as I would think anyone posting here must, or must have in the past. I admit I'm a die-hard; I would watch regardless of conference. I would much, much rather that conference not be garbage, but I'm watching either way. I thought more of us were the same way. I thought that was one of the things that made us different from LoSer-U, where it's just fashion and not real passion, generally.
The feelings you describe are how I once felt watching people lose interest because of bad records. I'd had an entire life of following losing college teams, and it made me strong, I thought. Don't leave when it gets bad, I thought. And, as for W/L, I'm still in that mindset, though it'd be better for my health if I wasn't. But add in dropping to competition where it doesn't even really feel like it matters if we win? In a changing college football landscape where the divide is only going to keep gettin wider? That's a horse of a different color for me.

Maybe we have a backdoor deal to the B12. Or even the MWC. It's possible. But it's about the only lifeboat to semi-relevancy I can imagine at this point.
To whether this is terrible or not will play out in the details of the new contract. If the money stays about the same and the TV slots stay the same we evry well may come out better in the long run than if the former teams would have stayed. As a brand we move from bottom 5 program of an 11 team league to the top five of a 14 team league. We will get more ESPN and ABC tv slots and we are no longer the new guy. I am not asserting we dumb down the schedule, but the reality is the AAC over the last 4 years was much better than it got credit for. The SBC seems much stronger than it actually is. The bottome half is terrible and f our 6-6 teams from 20 and 19 were in that conference we would have been right there with ULL, Coastal, and App state at the top. The bottom line is this will be agood thing for Tulane if we coach well, recruit well, play well and win. We'll have just as much access to the expanded playoff as any other G5 with ESPN on our side.

This move is a proactive move against the sunbelt and mwc. We have grabbed the best Texas programs from the MWC's radar. We have grabbed the best CUSA programs that the SBC would grab. You think this move waters down us. Anyone, outside of Marshall, that the SC would take from the CUSA leftovers water's down the SBC even worse.
Easy litmus test: would you rather be in the aac as currently constituted or the new aac without houston, cinci, ucf and with the new 6? We can try to make the best of a crap sandwich, but it is still a crap sandwich.

As for hurting the other leagues, it would've been far better to take App, Coastal, UAB and UTSA and directly hurt both leagues. Let the mountain west or sun belt have rice and north Texas and fau and Charlotte. The fact we never even heard about poaching from the belt leaves me thinking espn just used us. They don't give a rat's behind about our school or future. We are just a pawn to them, tradition and fans be darned. And thats why people are so frustrated they are considering tuning out. What's the point anymore?
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by wavedom »

GretnaGrn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:52 pm
tjtlja wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:38 pm I don’t think this is an overall knee jerk reaction. Our football program and university is wasting money. We are in no position to to do anything other than go independent and maybe make some money. Run a poll to see how many will actually be interested in CUSA 2. Very few are interested in the AAC when we are losing. Instead of taking shots at each other, take shots at the people who are cumulatively responsible for where we are today. No shots should be aimed at any of us because we are the only ones left. I think there are only two paths - go independent, go home.
We were independent at a time when it was WAAAY easier to be an independent, and tens of people freezing in the dome saw the result. A return to those days is pointless. That route is a non-starter; no one was interested then, either, and that was at a time when it was a less impossible road.
We were independent when we moved into the Dome. We drew well. Then we made a series of bad hires and the crowds started to dwindle. So no the dome nor independence were the problem.it’s that type of thinking that contributed to this terrible spot. Having said that independence is not the way to go now. Our schedules would be horrific.
We deserve so much better
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by tjtlja »

GretnaGrn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:52 pm
tjtlja wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:38 pm I don’t think this is an overall knee jerk reaction. Our football program and university is wasting money. We are in no position to to do anything other than go independent and maybe make some money. Run a poll to see how many will actually be interested in CUSA 2. Very few are interested in the AAC when we are losing. Instead of taking shots at each other, take shots at the people who are cumulatively responsible for where we are today. No shots should be aimed at any of us because we are the only ones left. I think there are only two paths - go independent, go home.
We were independent at a time when it was WAAAY easier to be an independent, and tens of people freezing in the dome saw the result. A return to those days is pointless. That route is a non-starter; no one was interested then, either, and that was at a time when it was a less impossible road.
The point is if you schedule right than you have a half-azz way of making some money. This was never about wins and losses, was it?
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by Wavefan »

Yes, this is a tough pill to swallow. But think of it this way - it can get worse.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by waverider »

I’m trying to look at the positives. My daughter may be interested in attending Southeastern in a couple years so I can visit her for the games when we have relegated ourselves to the Southland Conference.

Of course we may be good in this conference:
Per Gabe Feldman:
Congratulations to @Tulane and @CFSTulane on being named one of the 25 @SpecialOlympics Unified Champion Schools this year and joining the @espn Honor Roll! Thank you to all of our students and athletes for making unified sports an important and fun part of the Tulane experience
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by Poseidon »

visualmagic wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:57 pm
Poseidon wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:44 pm
WaveProf wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:53 pm
GretnaGrn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:27 pm Obviously, this is all about as bad as can be, and some depression is understandable and entirely appropriate, but the attitude of "oh well, I quit" in here is disgusting. Tulane has, unfortunately, been dreadfully bad for a long, long time, other than brief flashes. We have been in worse conference situations than even this one--which, to be clear, is indeed horrible.

I enjoy Tulane sports, as I would think anyone posting here must, or must have in the past. I admit I'm a die-hard; I would watch regardless of conference. I would much, much rather that conference not be garbage, but I'm watching either way. I thought more of us were the same way. I thought that was one of the things that made us different from LoSer-U, where it's just fashion and not real passion, generally.
The feelings you describe are how I once felt watching people lose interest because of bad records. I'd had an entire life of following losing college teams, and it made me strong, I thought. Don't leave when it gets bad, I thought. And, as for W/L, I'm still in that mindset, though it'd be better for my health if I wasn't. But add in dropping to competition where it doesn't even really feel like it matters if we win? In a changing college football landscape where the divide is only going to keep gettin wider? That's a horse of a different color for me.

Maybe we have a backdoor deal to the B12. Or even the MWC. It's possible. But it's about the only lifeboat to semi-relevancy I can imagine at this point.
To whether this is terrible or not will play out in the details of the new contract. If the money stays about the same and the TV slots stay the same we evry well may come out better in the long run than if the former teams would have stayed. As a brand we move from bottom 5 program of an 11 team league to the top five of a 14 team league. We will get more ESPN and ABC tv slots and we are no longer the new guy. I am not asserting we dumb down the schedule, but the reality is the AAC over the last 4 years was much better than it got credit for. The SBC seems much stronger than it actually is. The bottome half is terrible and f our 6-6 teams from 20 and 19 were in that conference we would have been right there with ULL, Coastal, and App state at the top. The bottom line is this will be agood thing for Tulane if we coach well, recruit well, play well and win. We'll have just as much access to the expanded playoff as any other G5 with ESPN on our side.
If we coach well, recruit well and win, we’ll be making the best of it but no, ultimately this is not a good thing for Tulane. You can try to be as optimistic as you want but it’s just not a good thing
Its not about being optimistic. I think Tulane has a significantly better chance of winning the conference multiple time and/or getting to the new playoff in this new setup than the current oneover the next 10 years. As long as the money is also similar that is a better scenario. It helps I dont mind road trips to San Antonio, Birmingham, and Miami.

There is a ton of hang wringing, but guys they could have addd La Tech or ULL.
Quote:The Good - TULANE
The Bad - LSU
THe Ugly - USM
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

Poseidon wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:22 pm
visualmagic wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:57 pm
Poseidon wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:44 pm
WaveProf wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:53 pm
GretnaGrn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:27 pm Obviously, this is all about as bad as can be, and some depression is understandable and entirely appropriate, but the attitude of "oh well, I quit" in here is disgusting. Tulane has, unfortunately, been dreadfully bad for a long, long time, other than brief flashes. We have been in worse conference situations than even this one--which, to be clear, is indeed horrible.

I enjoy Tulane sports, as I would think anyone posting here must, or must have in the past. I admit I'm a die-hard; I would watch regardless of conference. I would much, much rather that conference not be garbage, but I'm watching either way. I thought more of us were the same way. I thought that was one of the things that made us different from LoSer-U, where it's just fashion and not real passion, generally.
The feelings you describe are how I once felt watching people lose interest because of bad records. I'd had an entire life of following losing college teams, and it made me strong, I thought. Don't leave when it gets bad, I thought. And, as for W/L, I'm still in that mindset, though it'd be better for my health if I wasn't. But add in dropping to competition where it doesn't even really feel like it matters if we win? In a changing college football landscape where the divide is only going to keep gettin wider? That's a horse of a different color for me.

Maybe we have a backdoor deal to the B12. Or even the MWC. It's possible. But it's about the only lifeboat to semi-relevancy I can imagine at this point.
To whether this is terrible or not will play out in the details of the new contract. If the money stays about the same and the TV slots stay the same we evry well may come out better in the long run than if the former teams would have stayed. As a brand we move from bottom 5 program of an 11 team league to the top five of a 14 team league. We will get more ESPN and ABC tv slots and we are no longer the new guy. I am not asserting we dumb down the schedule, but the reality is the AAC over the last 4 years was much better than it got credit for. The SBC seems much stronger than it actually is. The bottome half is terrible and f our 6-6 teams from 20 and 19 were in that conference we would have been right there with ULL, Coastal, and App state at the top. The bottom line is this will be agood thing for Tulane if we coach well, recruit well, play well and win. We'll have just as much access to the expanded playoff as any other G5 with ESPN on our side.
If we coach well, recruit well and win, we’ll be making the best of it but no, ultimately this is not a good thing for Tulane. You can try to be as optimistic as you want but it’s just not a good thing
Its not about being optimistic. I think Tulane has a significantly better chance of winning the conference multiple time and/or getting to the new playoff in this new setup than the current oneover the next 10 years. As long as the money is also similar that is a better scenario. It helps I dont mind road trips to San Antonio, Birmingham, and Miami.

There is a ton of hang wringing, but guys they could have addd La Tech or ULL.
How'd we do in 2013? We should've won 10 or 11 games and the conference. We found ways not to. We'll find ways to bungle it again. Even if we did win a conference title, it will be like winning the current cusa or sun belt, nationally irrelevant. Can you name the last 5 CUSA champs? Sure it could be worse but it's still pretty bad
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by visualmagic »

Poseidon wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:22 pm
visualmagic wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:57 pm
Poseidon wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:44 pm
WaveProf wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:53 pm
GretnaGrn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:27 pm Obviously, this is all about as bad as can be, and some depression is understandable and entirely appropriate, but the attitude of "oh well, I quit" in here is disgusting. Tulane has, unfortunately, been dreadfully bad for a long, long time, other than brief flashes. We have been in worse conference situations than even this one--which, to be clear, is indeed horrible.

I enjoy Tulane sports, as I would think anyone posting here must, or must have in the past. I admit I'm a die-hard; I would watch regardless of conference. I would much, much rather that conference not be garbage, but I'm watching either way. I thought more of us were the same way. I thought that was one of the things that made us different from LoSer-U, where it's just fashion and not real passion, generally.
The feelings you describe are how I once felt watching people lose interest because of bad records. I'd had an entire life of following losing college teams, and it made me strong, I thought. Don't leave when it gets bad, I thought. And, as for W/L, I'm still in that mindset, though it'd be better for my health if I wasn't. But add in dropping to competition where it doesn't even really feel like it matters if we win? In a changing college football landscape where the divide is only going to keep gettin wider? That's a horse of a different color for me.

Maybe we have a backdoor deal to the B12. Or even the MWC. It's possible. But it's about the only lifeboat to semi-relevancy I can imagine at this point.
To whether this is terrible or not will play out in the details of the new contract. If the money stays about the same and the TV slots stay the same we evry well may come out better in the long run than if the former teams would have stayed. As a brand we move from bottom 5 program of an 11 team league to the top five of a 14 team league. We will get more ESPN and ABC tv slots and we are no longer the new guy. I am not asserting we dumb down the schedule, but the reality is the AAC over the last 4 years was much better than it got credit for. The SBC seems much stronger than it actually is. The bottome half is terrible and f our 6-6 teams from 20 and 19 were in that conference we would have been right there with ULL, Coastal, and App state at the top. The bottom line is this will be agood thing for Tulane if we coach well, recruit well, play well and win. We'll have just as much access to the expanded playoff as any other G5 with ESPN on our side.
If we coach well, recruit well and win, we’ll be making the best of it but no, ultimately this is not a good thing for Tulane. You can try to be as optimistic as you want but it’s just not a good thing
Its not about being optimistic. I think Tulane has a significantly better chance of winning the conference multiple time and/or getting to the new playoff in this new setup than the current oneover the next 10 years. As long as the money is also similar that is a better scenario. It helps I dont mind road trips to San Antonio, Birmingham, and Miami.

There is a ton of hang wringing, but guys they could have addd La Tech or ULL.
I don’t see the money staying the same for long Unless some of the teams we’re adding make big improvements.

We’ll have a better chance to win the AAC but As for the playoff, it’s probably never going to be an automatic bid just from winning the AAC. You’ll probably have to be at worst a top 16 team in the country. Do you truly believe that this new conference improves Tulane’s chances of fielding a top 16 team in the country? The talent level in the league is going to take a big hit, so I doubt it.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by DrHullabaloo »

wait, the AAC was worried that someone wanted dibs on North Texas and Charlotte, so Aresco beat them to it? Oy.

Horrific season, horrific decision by the conference. Nail, coffin. What's most disappointing is that there's absolutely zero effort by Dannen or anybody at Tulane for that matter, to lift a finger to say anything about any of this.

There's not many fans left, driving fans away with poor performances, poor conference strategies, and then they're gonna have nerve to complain about "fan support".

Look at what we gotta put up with here. Who wants to watch the unwatchable, and have that now be more unwatchable than before.

If SMU has an inside track on going to the MWC, I would tell them to get packed up and go.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by waverider »

I would prefer a P5 (ACC or BIG12) over MWC but that might be a better choice than the new AAC. I do know that Dannen was having calls with the MWC (among others) so if that’s our best “move up” option I don’t know that it’s completely out of the question.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by PeteRasche »

Anyone who even suggests the thought of going independent in today's landscape hasn't been paying attention to our ex-conference mate in Storrs. Nuff said on that.

For those of you screaming "why haven't we heard anything?" , "where's Fitts?" , "why is Dannen silent?" , etc., remember this has not been announced as "real" yet. One reporter (Thamel) tweeted a rumor from a source and every other media outlet picked up on it. It could turn out to be untrue, or only partially true. It could get shot down in final voting or caught in legal red tape. But whatever it is, no administrator is going to say a word until something is official, which means school presidents voted, contracts are signed, etc. And while I can't speak for our current or potential future conference mates, the Tulane "cone of silence" around rumors and decisions under Dannen has been ironclad and impenetrable. You won't hear anything from our folks until they want you to.
tulaneoutlaw wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:18 pm The fact we never even heard about poaching from the belt leaves me thinking espn just used us. They don't give a rat's behind about our school or future. We are just a pawn to them, tradition and fans be darned.
Outlaw, you've posted a lot of really thoughtful analysis about various things related to realignment in the past four months. After all of that, I'm absolutely astounded at this post. Please tell me a day's worth of strife over this news has your brain addled, and that you really didn't mean to post that you actually thought ESPN cared about ANYTHING OTHER THAN MONEY. At any time. Ever.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by wave-em in »

Bright side?

Within the next year or 2, Tulane can claim that the '98 team was 5-0 vs Power5 programs. 7-0 if Memphis and SMU eventually get in
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by SlidellWave »

DrHullabaloo wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:19 pm What's most disappointing is that there's absolutely zero effort by Dannen or anybody at Tulane for that matter, to lift a finger to say anything about any of this.
And you know this because you sit in Dannen's office 24-7?

What were you guys expecting to happen? What did you want to happen? After Col. St and AF said no where did you think this conference was going to go? Are you mad because we added 6 schools instead of 4? Should we have stayed at 8 because no school is worthy? That would have just opened things up for the remaining 8 to completely look out for themselves and we could have ended up in the current CUSA.

Everyone is mad but no one is giving what should have been done. This is like saying "He deserved to be in the All-Star game!", but until you tell me who he was supposed to replace in the game then it doesn't fly. I get the argument that this is a worse conference now than this year, but that was going to be the case even if we added CSU, AF, BS, and SDS, much less schools after they said no.

I know TV markets mean less than they have in the past but they still are a factor. This is the current AAC television market rankings:
1. Temple (4)
2. SMU (5)
3. Navy (6)
4. Houston (7)
5. South Florida (11)
6. UCF (18)
7. Cincinnati (35)
8. Tulane (50)
9. Memphis (51)
10. Tulsa (61)
11. East Carolina (107)

Possible adds
1. North Texas (5)
2. Rice (7)
3. FAU (16)
4. Colorado State (17)
5. Charlotte (21)
6. San Diego State (29)
7. San Antonio (31)
8. Birmingham (44)
9. Air Force (91)
10. Coastal Carolina (99)
11. Boise (100)
12. Appalachian State (NR out of 210 markets)

Mountain West
1. San Jose St. (8)
2. Colorado St. (17)
3. San Diego St. (29)
4. Utah St. (30)
5. UNLV (39)
6. New Mexico (47)
7. Fresno St. (54)
8. Hawaii (66)
9. Air Force (91)
10. Boise St. (100)
11. Nevada (109)
12. Wyoming (197)

Now let’s look at attendance
2019 Rank / 2019 Avg / 2018 Rank / 2021 Avg (as best as I can calc)
1. East Carolina 57 / 40,361.6 / 52 / 37,565.25
2. Memphis 61 / 36,295.8 / 66 / 29,856.33
3. UCF 63 / 34,814.6 / 62 / 40,046.00
4. South Florida 66 / 32,945.8 / 63 / 29,475.00
5. Houston 68 / 32,733.0 / 74 / 30,510.00
6. Navy 69 / 32,565.0 / 69 / 31,640.50
7. Cincinnati 71 / 31,694.8 / 72 / 35,608.00
8. Temple 75 / 30,108.4 / 78 / 26,931.50
9. Tulane 90 / 21,122.8 / 92 / 15,524.50 (No Ok or MSt)
10. SMU 91 / 21,122.0 / 93 / 26,238.00
11. Tulsa 103 / 18,812.0 / 101 / 15,862.25


Possible adds
2019 Rank / 2019 Avg / 2018 Rank / 2021 Avg (as best as I can calc)
1. San Diego St. 65 / 33,909.4 / 71 / MWC #1 in 2019
2. Boise St. 67 / 32916.6 / 65 / MWC #2
3. Colorado St. 76 / 28,131.6 / 88 / MWC #4
4. Air Force 77 / 28,125.8 / 76 / MWC #5
5. UTSA 85 / 24,230.6 / 85 / 20,025.00
6. Appalachian St. 86 / 23,703.6 / 86 / 31,784.33
7. Rice 97 / 17,770.4 / 100 / 20,203.33
8. North Texas 99 / 19,699.4 / 104 / 16,523.33
9. FAU 116 / 15,560.2 / 120 / 20,929.00
10. UAB 121 / 14,501.1 / 128 / 31,179.00
11. Charlotte 125 / 13,139.2 / 126 / 12,491.67
12. Coastal Car 129 / 10306.6 / 130 / 16,967.00

For the record the remaining 8 AAC schools averaged 29,166.68 in 2019, all 11 average 30,234 The MWC averaged 24,237.15

What does this all mean, nothing except there are no perfect candidates. That being said we got the last of the big markets available if anyone else wanted those. The biggest attendance leaders from 2019 left are Marshall (82) , S. Miss (84), and Arkansas St. (87). It might be a doody sandwich but we got mostly bread and left a lot of doody.

I personally would have tried harder with the MWC. I would have pointed out the differences in attendance and market size. I would like to see attendance figures from before both the AAC and MWC were formed and compare it to now. I would have also tried to split the MWC from Boise. I would have gone to other members and told them everyone is the same, no special treatments for Boise. I would have targeted San Diego St., Colorado St, Air Force, Fresno (better team) or San Jose (better area), UNLV (better market) or Nevada (better team), and probably Utah State. That would have left Boise homeless or in a much weaker position. If they caved and joined I would either take one of the Ors above or UAB/UTSA and had a 16-team conference, and then would try to align with the SEC as much as possible.

That being said, that is a long shot to have happened. So after being rejected by the MWC I would have added UAB and UTSA for sure. Charlotte would probably still have been an add for me with the growth of Charlotte. FAU and North Texas don’t do much for me, except markets. Rice really doesn’t do much for me but I get the reason. Marshall, S. Miss, Liberty, anyone else in the Sun Belt or CUSA would be a no as well. That leaves me with Appalachian St. and Coastal. Coastal is too new and needs to go through a coaching change for me to be sold on them, they are probably this decades (half decade?) Troy. Appy State is the exception. They have had a few coaching changes and are still going strong. Their market stinks, but attendance is very good. I probably would have rolled the dice with them over North Texas. So my adds wouldn’t be too different. I would go to 14 so that if we do lose 2 more we aren’t scrambling again (the scramble makes us look worse than anything). Constantly looking for new members is a bad look.

Congratulations if you got to the end of this rant.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

PeteRasche wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:01 pm
tulaneoutlaw wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:18 pm The fact we never even heard about poaching from the belt leaves me thinking espn just used us. They don't give a rat's behind about our school or future. We are just a pawn to them, tradition and fans be darned.
Outlaw, you've posted a lot of really thoughtful analysis about various things related to realignment in the past four months. After all of that, I'm absolutely astounded at this post. Please tell me a day's worth of strife over this news has your brain addled, and that you really didn't mean to post that you actually thought ESPN cared about ANYTHING OTHER THAN MONEY. At any time. Ever.
:lol: I'm a Tulane fan, of course I'm addled! In all seriousness, a more nuanced version of what I meant to convey would be that I'm angry about *how* espn values us. It's always been about the money, but in the AAC to this point it felt like it was in their interest to drum up interest in the conference and promote our competitive future. Now it feels like they've thrown in the towel on that, harvested the wheat of the group and thrown the chaff out for the possums and skunks to pick over.

Maybe that's the wrong read and we were just filler all along. In any case like many here in the last 48 hours I've gone between the despair of this small (and shrinking) community of like minded fans to trying to explain this to other alums and semi-fans (ie my wife who only cares because of me) who seem completely unruffled like this is perfectly fine. It's maddening, but there's nothing left to do except get on with life I guess.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by Baywave1 »

At its core, all concerned are addled that others (TCU, UC, UCF, UH) have successfully climbed the greasy pole and Tulane hasn’t, especially this season.

Tulane has kept its ESPN revenue base which many here doubted a few weeks ago. Now it’s time to maximize it. I’m rooting for UC to make CFP. Let’s then have AAC have an extended run in NCAA hoops tourney. Ultimately when CFP is expanded have AAC succeed there too

Meanwhile make the three amigos pay to leave early, say $25 million a piece? That will give Tulane another $8+ million in found coin. Then Dannen has to up his game and use this money well to make Tulane an attractive P5 candidate.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by WaveProf »

tulaneoutlaw wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:07 am. It's always been about the money, but in the AAC to this point it felt like it was in their interest to drum up interest in the conference and promote our competitive future. Now it feels like they've thrown in the towel on that, harvested the wheat of the group and thrown the chaff out for the possums and skunks to pick over.
It's the same with any unfettered corporation, they were propping us up so long as it was in THEIR interest to do so, but it was always evident they would prop us down the moment it was in THEIR interest to do so.

They wanted to raid the B12 because the B12 isn't ESPN content. When that didn't work, we didn't matter. But there was still a chance to raid non-ESPN content (CUSA), so that's what mattered. It is a horrific worldview. One that, in this case, may eventually kill college football. But it is far from unique to ESPN.
“We will expect success in all endeavors and be prepared to assess and hold ourselves accountable when we aren't successful. Tulane is a top 40 academic institution and it should expect nothing less from its athletic department.” --Troy Dannen 11.5.16
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by Carolina Greenie »

I am with you, Outlaw

I thought that having a presence in the top tier of sports was a fun differentiator from the Case Westerns, Davidson’s, and Carnegie Mellons And WashU ‘s of the world. I think its a great thing to keep Alumni connected to their alma maters, and, honestly, fun. But it’s not like the kids at these schools are suffering in hell.


It makes me wonder, as a thought experiment, what LSU and Auburn and Ole Miss would be like if sports disappeared in a strange rapture like way. In the long run, would these schools suffer from decreased attention and funding? Or, would they perhaps do a better job accomplishing their mission to educate and economically develop their state? Something in between? I dunno.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by CletusRelm »

Please forgive me for asking this (and I do follow football), but how do these possible new schools affect the baseball program? :?
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by tulaneoutlaw »

CletusRelm wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:49 am Please forgive me for asking this (and I do follow football), but how do these possible new schools affect the baseball program? :?
At face value, it doesn't help much. Rice has been a shell of themselves for awhile. None of the others strike me as having made much noise recently. It might be worth digging into the last ~5 years rpis to see how they did. Rice won CUSA and made the tournament in 2017. Since then it's been USM twice and ODU most recently, and we're not adding any of those.

On edit, Rice and USM (at large) made the tourney in 2017. USM and FAU (at large both times) made it in 2018 and 2019. 2021 was a banner year for CUSA with 4 teams getting in, however only Charlotte (at large) is joining the AAC. USM, LT, and ODU got the other spots.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by Poseidon »

SlidellWave wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:22 am
DrHullabaloo wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:19 pm What's most disappointing is that there's absolutely zero effort by Dannen or anybody at Tulane for that matter, to lift a finger to say anything about any of this.
And you know this because you sit in Dannen's office 24-7?

What were you guys expecting to happen? What did you want to happen? After Col. St and AF said no where did you think this conference was going to go? Are you mad because we added 6 schools instead of 4? Should we have stayed at 8 because no school is worthy? That would have just opened things up for the remaining 8 to completely look out for themselves and we could have ended up in the current CUSA.

Everyone is mad but no one is giving what should have been done. This is like saying "He deserved to be in the All-Star game!", but until you tell me who he was supposed to replace in the game then it doesn't fly. I get the argument that this is a worse conference now than this year, but that was going to be the case even if we added CSU, AF, BS, and SDS, much less schools after they said no.

I know TV markets mean less than they have in the past but they still are a factor. This is the current AAC television market rankings:
1. Temple (4)
2. SMU (5)
3. Navy (6)
4. Houston (7)
5. South Florida (11)
6. UCF (18)
7. Cincinnati (35)
8. Tulane (50)
9. Memphis (51)
10. Tulsa (61)
11. East Carolina (107)

Possible adds
1. North Texas (5)
2. Rice (7)
3. FAU (16)
4. Colorado State (17)
5. Charlotte (21)
6. San Diego State (29)
7. San Antonio (31)
8. Birmingham (44)
9. Air Force (91)
10. Coastal Carolina (99)
11. Boise (100)
12. Appalachian State (NR out of 210 markets)

Mountain West
1. San Jose St. (8)
2. Colorado St. (17)
3. San Diego St. (29)
4. Utah St. (30)
5. UNLV (39)
6. New Mexico (47)
7. Fresno St. (54)
8. Hawaii (66)
9. Air Force (91)
10. Boise St. (100)
11. Nevada (109)
12. Wyoming (197)

Now let’s look at attendance
2019 Rank / 2019 Avg / 2018 Rank / 2021 Avg (as best as I can calc)
1. East Carolina 57 / 40,361.6 / 52 / 37,565.25
2. Memphis 61 / 36,295.8 / 66 / 29,856.33
3. UCF 63 / 34,814.6 / 62 / 40,046.00
4. South Florida 66 / 32,945.8 / 63 / 29,475.00
5. Houston 68 / 32,733.0 / 74 / 30,510.00
6. Navy 69 / 32,565.0 / 69 / 31,640.50
7. Cincinnati 71 / 31,694.8 / 72 / 35,608.00
8. Temple 75 / 30,108.4 / 78 / 26,931.50
9. Tulane 90 / 21,122.8 / 92 / 15,524.50 (No Ok or MSt)
10. SMU 91 / 21,122.0 / 93 / 26,238.00
11. Tulsa 103 / 18,812.0 / 101 / 15,862.25


Possible adds
2019 Rank / 2019 Avg / 2018 Rank / 2021 Avg (as best as I can calc)
1. San Diego St. 65 / 33,909.4 / 71 / MWC #1 in 2019
2. Boise St. 67 / 32916.6 / 65 / MWC #2
3. Colorado St. 76 / 28,131.6 / 88 / MWC #4
4. Air Force 77 / 28,125.8 / 76 / MWC #5
5. UTSA 85 / 24,230.6 / 85 / 20,025.00
6. Appalachian St. 86 / 23,703.6 / 86 / 31,784.33
7. Rice 97 / 17,770.4 / 100 / 20,203.33
8. North Texas 99 / 19,699.4 / 104 / 16,523.33
9. FAU 116 / 15,560.2 / 120 / 20,929.00
10. UAB 121 / 14,501.1 / 128 / 31,179.00
11. Charlotte 125 / 13,139.2 / 126 / 12,491.67
12. Coastal Car 129 / 10306.6 / 130 / 16,967.00

For the record the remaining 8 AAC schools averaged 29,166.68 in 2019, all 11 average 30,234 The MWC averaged 24,237.15

What does this all mean, nothing except there are no perfect candidates. That being said we got the last of the big markets available if anyone else wanted those. The biggest attendance leaders from 2019 left are Marshall (82) , S. Miss (84), and Arkansas St. (87). It might be a doody sandwich but we got mostly bread and left a lot of doody.

I personally would have tried harder with the MWC. I would have pointed out the differences in attendance and market size. I would like to see attendance figures from before both the AAC and MWC were formed and compare it to now. I would have also tried to split the MWC from Boise. I would have gone to other members and told them everyone is the same, no special treatments for Boise. I would have targeted San Diego St., Colorado St, Air Force, Fresno (better team) or San Jose (better area), UNLV (better market) or Nevada (better team), and probably Utah State. That would have left Boise homeless or in a much weaker position. If they caved and joined I would either take one of the Ors above or UAB/UTSA and had a 16-team conference, and then would try to align with the SEC as much as possible.

That being said, that is a long shot to have happened. So after being rejected by the MWC I would have added UAB and UTSA for sure. Charlotte would probably still have been an add for me with the growth of Charlotte. FAU and North Texas don’t do much for me, except markets. Rice really doesn’t do much for me but I get the reason. Marshall, S. Miss, Liberty, anyone else in the Sun Belt or CUSA would be a no as well. That leaves me with Appalachian St. and Coastal. Coastal is too new and needs to go through a coaching change for me to be sold on them, they are probably this decades (half decade?) Troy. Appy State is the exception. They have had a few coaching changes and are still going strong. Their market stinks, but attendance is very good. I probably would have rolled the dice with them over North Texas. So my adds wouldn’t be too different. I would go to 14 so that if we do lose 2 more we aren’t scrambling again (the scramble makes us look worse than anything). Constantly looking for new members is a bad look.

Congratulations if you got to the end of this rant.
Well said.
Quote:The Good - TULANE
The Bad - LSU
THe Ugly - USM
Dishonorable mention - Navy
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by ml wave »

tjtlja wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:21 pm
GretnaGrn wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:52 pm
tjtlja wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:38 pm I don’t think this is an overall knee jerk reaction. Our football program and university is wasting money. We are in no position to to do anything other than go independent and maybe make some money. Run a poll to see how many will actually be interested in CUSA 2. Very few are interested in the AAC when we are losing. Instead of taking shots at each other, take shots at the people who are cumulatively responsible for where we are today. No shots should be aimed at any of us because we are the only ones left. I think there are only two paths - go independent, go home.
We were independent at a time when it was WAAAY easier to be an independent, and tens of people freezing in the dome saw the result. A return to those days is pointless. That route is a non-starter; no one was interested then, either, and that was at a time when it was a less impossible road.
The point is if you schedule right than you have a half-azz way of making some money. This was never about wins and losses, was it?
How are you going to get bowl access as a small fan base indy (as opposed to ND or BYU)? And if you can't get bowl access, what does that do to your recruiting? This is a terrible idea. If we're that desperate for money, we should schedule a couple bodybag games, not a whole season's worth.
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Re: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Post by ml wave »

None of us know what our administration thinks of these moves. Even if they hate them as much as we do, they're not going to say anything about it publicly--that wouldn't serve any purpose. I can only hope that Fitts/Dannen see us as "tied to the hip" with SMU and Memphis.

Meanwhile, I wonder what Temple makes of all this. They are becoming geographically isolated as the conference shifts south/Texas.
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